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# Transcript
**SPEAKER_02:** Okay. I'm just blabbering out of logic because but did Avengers assemble for a meeting for the NGO. So unfortunately yearly shit... Is this actually working? So unfortunately yearly bureaucracy shit happens and as you may know or may not know, Tami is actually a legal entity within the state. And for this to continue existing unfortunately we have to comply with some stuff. Does it work? All right. All right, all right, all right, all right.
**SPEAKER_09:** He doesn't want to be a part of the board of directors anymore.
**SPEAKER_18:** Can we give some context for us?
**SPEAKER_09:** For the NGO? Yeah, sure.
**SPEAKER_18:** So basically for whoever may not know. So Tami is a legal amuta. an NGO but makes more sense if you don't know the direct translation basically what this means is that Tami exists like many other NGOs in Israel we have like a formal legal structure meaning that we have members official members of the NGO basically registered you can go online to GuideStar where you can look at all of the Israeli NGOs and you can see Tami there as well you can see the annual reporting that Tami makes you can see who are the official members of Tami address all of the legal stuff so yeah every financial every yearly record that we file is there So basically, this is just the context. So we have a few members. Most of the people that are a part of the NGO have been there. The official, yeah, a part of the member.
**SPEAKER_09:** We've been using the NGO to essentially be a vehicle for just having TAMI, like, existing. It has no official, you know, it's completely different, essentially. There is TAMI, the physical, and...
**SPEAKER_26:** Tell me the official entity.
**SPEAKER_09:** Yeah, there's like the official entity of Tami, which we use to pay our rent and have a bank account and just use it as something that we can do a little bit better than having somebody in the space who has a bank account and we just pay him or whatever, right? This is like the better way of doing this kind of stuff when you deal with quote-unquote volunteering work. And so we have this. We have this for a long time. I think it's seven years or something like that we had this. And this year Alon asked to make a change, because he doesn't want to take an official position anymore. At least he wants to still be a part of the... So I don't know if you know, to give some context, any NGO has like a general assembly, which is just the members... who are a part of the NGO, and they're essentially, they are the one who would vote what is the directive of the NGO, what are they doing, what is their mission, and stuff like that, and they will vote in the vote of director, who essentially is responsible for budgeting, opening and closing up projects of the NGO, and hiring a CEO and so on. There's a whole scheme of responsibilities that the board of directors can do. And there's a few other, but that's the main separation, at least for at least for our small NGO that we are, like if you have a bigger NGO, you have more people, more positions in the NGO. So Elon asked that he doesn't want to be anymore as an official board member, but he still wants to be a part of the General Assembly, which is fine. And he asked me to figure out if, who will want to replace him, and Ma.
**SPEAKER_19:** For who?
**SPEAKER_09:** For the board member? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I can only, this is no official, I can only tell you what I know. The only person in the NGO, the two people who have some liability, is the director, the board of directors. There's almost none to the general assembly, which have a vote into the director. And most of the responsibility for the board of directors is mostly for negligence. So if there is some, if somebody external shows that you are negligent in some way, usually there will be the people who need to report and show that.
**SPEAKER_18:** Did you ask who can be?
**SPEAKER_09:** He asked in general what would be the legal ramification for being... Who is the current director standing? So we have Yair at the moment. We volunteer to fill that position. And Alon, right?
**SPEAKER_25:** So Alon is the CEO? One is Deor and me and Jeremy are the two other board members.
**SPEAKER_09:** And also there is like another position which is important for the managing of the amuta, which is... which is co-signees, which essentially gives... It doesn't have to be somebody from the NGO itself. It's just somebody that the General Assembly chooses in order to say, we give you the responsibility to be able to sign in the name of the NGO. Like signing checks, signing contracts, stuff like that. Usually it will be somebody from the NGO itself, but it doesn't have to. And I don't remember who is the person who is...
**SPEAKER_19:** It can be an accomplished person.
**SPEAKER_09:** Yeah, it can be anybody, pretty much. There is, of course, you want to be somebody, you want it to be somebody who is a part of the NGO itself, because then the interests are aligned, because it's a legal entity, which can, essentially, if they sign something for the NGO, they can require you to do it. So you want it to be somebody from the NGO itself.
**SPEAKER_02:** The thing is, we sat down last week, a bunch of us, like, a bunch of people that were there, because of the leak and the stuff that happened, like, we just opened the bank account to see how much we have to handle this, further stuff that might happen and whatnot. And the bank is, like, it's not in a good shape. It's like, hmm?
**SPEAKER_23:** You want to? I want to speak about this.
**SPEAKER_18:** So basically I think in further context that we can give is that essentially dealing with these things, with bureaucracy and stuff like that, it's something that I think most of us don't like. Tommy, again, the NGO is the vessel, right? It's just the thing that, you know, the least pain that we could do in order to make this place exist. um and the the thing is behind it is that at the end of the day it's you know just stuff sort of happens usually we have like an end of year rush to complete things um it usually falls on whoever is in contact with uh the uh the accountant which is external to tummy is paid by uh by us um basically you know he's like do guys you have to like file end of year stuff and like rushes us to do stuff yeah yeah it's not it's not yeah it's not the best and and like basically currently this means you know like collecting receipts which I know that I think he is doing mostly now like for rent and for stuff and obviously paying the stuff to the municipality for for Arnona and all these things yeah so so so basically
**SPEAKER_07:** Usually it's on your call and nobody sees it.
**SPEAKER_02:** And it's passive. Rather than being active throughout the year, to be on top. Rather than being active throughout the year, to be on top of things, just to make sure that the NGO is just healthy. And there are a lot of things that can be done to be a healthy NGO. It's just bureaucracy and filing papers or having a paper trail or declaring stuff.
**SPEAKER_09:** every protocol like there it's a lot of like the two cents for this like having an amuta is you want to do something have a decision with the board members and director have a protocol that you decided that way and then you can proceed to pretty much whatever the amuta the amuta Directive is saying. There are some limitations on that, like an NGO cannot do stuff that they didn't declare in advance that it set out to do. So our NGO today is pretty much saying that it exists only to keep TAMI open, which made sense at the time, and we changed that a little bit after. But that's pretty much what it is, and that's how we kept it until this moment. So essentially, this meeting is in two parts. One for the, I mean, I'm not a member, and I would like to change that. I would want to be a part of the General Assembly. And from talking this past week, I've noticed that there's a lot of people who are interested in this. So this is part of why we are opening this up to have this conversation to see. And I should say, and I would stop myself and say, this has nothing to do with a position in TAMI. This gives you nothing for the actual TAMI. Just gives you maybe a position in helping them managing the hotel a little bit better.
**SPEAKER_00:** What kind of decisions for example a member and members should face in generally common situations?
**SPEAKER_09:** So as far as I know and I can tell is NGO member pretty much is like, they have, they can vote for certain things. They are the ones who essentially set the tone for the whole NGO, okay? So if, what? in practice what it will be like that happened in the last three years and in nothing which is uh no no no that's not true we like for saying for for changing the name of the amuta changing the directive of what the amuta is supposed to do uh deciding who will be the board of director deciding what is the position of a new person deciding who you're going to hire deciding how you're going to pay all this stuff actual timing
**SPEAKER_18:** Yeah. The actual what happens here?
**SPEAKER_09:** Nothing. There has been.
**SPEAKER_18:** So stuff that happens in Tami, basically, currently, and I assume that this is something that most people here like, right? It's a good thing about Tami. So basically, the people who are a part of the Amutah, they have basically no any other Yeah, they have no other like effect or any other like decision power as opposed to anyone that comes through the door, right?
**SPEAKER_24:** If the membership in the Almonta has not been historically relevant in the past couple of years at the very least, why are you looking for new members now?
**SPEAKER_02:** That's a good question. So to keep something bureaucratically healthy and existing, you need to follow some rules, unfortunately. And we've noticed that, yeah. We've noticed that TAMI is a bit lacking in this sense. And we are very afraid that this lack might result some asshole in the government saying, hey, no, you're not playing by the rules. TAMI cannot exist anymore because you've violated for the past few years. For this, we need to do a few things. Locally in TAMI, we need to be better in following these because Because it's a binary decision. You either exist or you don't. It doesn't mean anything for the ongoing participation. It doesn't change anything. The other thing is we might want to look at opening another NGO as a backup. just to be sure so we can start something that's actually bureaucratically healthy like a young kid that didn't do anything so we can have better control and better paperwork for everything from the get-go.
**SPEAKER_09:** So let me list some of the stuff before I get into what you just said. So some examples, for instance, things that NGOs need to do is have a budget, have a protocol, have decisions. Essentially, TAMI has been working, TAMI, the physical space, has been working under the officially its project, but we never actually formalized that relationship, which is slightly problematic, but easily solved. And all of the things that I'm saying right now is things that I've could look for myself and I, I haven't talked to our CPA yet, our accountant yet, but that will be the next step to actually go there and see, hey, any of these things that we were doing at the moment, is this problematic? How can we fix it? My worry, and this is a part of why we're opening this up, and that ties into what Gili said, that we might not be able to fix it because we've been doing this for a long time. And he might say, if you want to proceed, for instance, with 46, which I'll get into in a moment, we'll have to do changes which are...
**SPEAKER_18:** it's like a good terminology for it, is better tool use, right? If the NGO is the tool, right? I think the biggest conversation here is using this tool in a better way, right? So I think this is like the core point.
**SPEAKER_19:** You mean whether they can be able to hire people to sign a contract or wherever, like more formabilities and get a grant, for example.
**SPEAKER_18:** There are many potential advantages for NGOs. These things could be a tax break for donations. Now, these things, again, they have all sorts of benefits for NGOs. In the government, for example, you can get tax deduction points if you donate to various NGOs that are eligible to do that. yeah the the so another thing are grants there are certain discounts you can get from municipalities there are many there are many there are many small points that that that that potentially in general and some other stuff as well we we are good today as ngo or we have to build a new organization so we so basically there are a few legal like benchmarks that NGOs follow essentially again I don't remember the exact things but essentially for the last three years we've had like formally we've had a compliant bookkeeping Which has basically it means that for example we can we are on paper eligible to apply for example for For stuff for is that for example like tax? Tax deduction points on donations for donors now these are theoretical things okay? It's like just on paper. It doesn't necessarily means that we actually can achieve it these are like requests that still need to go through review but
**SPEAKER_09:** So in the past year, I've been in the position that our NGO doesn't matter. We all here in Tamii will do what we think is best. And I completely changed my mind because I've been interacting with other NGOs, which have done look good for themselves and they're doing really nice and they have many projects. And having conversation with the people managing it and the projects underneath them essentially showed me that we're underutilizing this tool that we have. And the reason that we haven't, I should say, that the reason that we haven't done this until now is mostly because in in at least in my mind it was like i don't want people to come into the door and i will have to sign them something because yeah to sign something or give me their name or whatever i want to i want the door to be completely open and have still access and having this managing uh ngo means that it will change But that was not true. I was mistaken. And essentially, there is a way, at least as far as I can see, for TAMI to be an official project where it's still given these freedoms. And we have the NGO essentially managing all the financial stuff. And when I say the NGO, it's us, right? It's you and whoever wants to be a part of it. So it's not somebody who is going to It doesn't have the same interest that we have. It's still us. It's still the same thing. And the only thing, the major thing that I can see from this moment that will change is the way we do receipts, which will at least reduce the burden on people who need to do it at least at the end of the year. and maybe we'll introduce some culture change of like how we put the receipts in and stuff like that but I don't know I can show this but the point is we don't need to solve this it has been solved already they are doing this they have developed their own system doing it and they're willing to open it up to us and share all the tools all the knowledge it's Bar Kaima and Moschot and I think they're I think Tali is in the room over there. The point is they have it on GitHub. Tali installed their extension on Odoo for us on MIT, I think. it's like anyway anyway the point is it's like it's like we can we can we can there's a lot of resource knowledge and and tooling there that they've done an amazing work on it and we can use it for for our own for our thing yeah just just like essentially you put your receipt and you get the money yeah yeah whatever whatever
**SPEAKER_18:** Yeah, thank you.
**SPEAKER_09:** The thing is, it mainly will help us to show that there is a real, I'm saying internally we know that there is an activity here, but externally we need to somehow show the tax authority that we want this 46 at some point. We need to show them that there is a real traffic and projects. Yeah. And this is one of the ways of showing that.
**SPEAKER_02:** And essentially, my personal goal is the next time that we have a well in our floor, we'll have something to fix it with, like in sense of funds or whatever. And to get this, other than the gracious donations of everyone here in this room, which is amazing, There is a possibility of getting outside funds for just like as an NGO because of donations. Because companies want to have talent from here or want to have an event space or another.
**SPEAKER_06:** Just education funds and whatever can help us there. yeah all yeah or just like with tools with whatever we need
**SPEAKER_00:** I wanted to ask, maybe to say, I think it's important for us to make a differentiation between what we need to do to make the NGO legally healthy, as we said, for the sex or something, I don't know, and the other way of it is like being a new kind of democracy or, I don't know... No, this doesn't change.
**SPEAKER_07:** day-to-day stays the same. It doesn't even stay, it is.
**SPEAKER_00:** Like what I was trying to say now, because of it, like why we don't like automate anything, everything, like what you have to say, like the GitHub project, the CMS, like maybe with all... Not everything is possible.
**SPEAKER_07:** I wish. Like you still need to do this physical, like you can't even do it online.
**SPEAKER_23:** Twice a year. One. Speaking from experience in many years of an NGO that were... NGO it was led by an accountant so it was much simpler for the bureaucracy but the meetings of the audit committee and the committee once or twice a year depends if you have something important it's for major changes and that's all you need to do 30 minutes of your life or one year to be there that's it.
**SPEAKER_02:** We need to have something like, hey, we did X and Y and Z throughout the year to be able to say, hey, we're doing something according to the goals of the NGO to be able to get funds or to comply for certain stuff.
**SPEAKER_04:** Yeah, that's basically my question. Does a healthy NGO needs to do anything other than paying rent, essentially? And how do you document it for the outside world? What would be those activities?
**SPEAKER_09:** If I understand the question, it's like you're asking what are they supposed to do except for like paying your rent?
**SPEAKER_03:** Mostly.
**SPEAKER_09:** Yeah, so it's like mainly, as far as I can see, again, I'm not an expert in the subject, as far as you can see, a healthy quote unquote NGO is like having those meetings of the board of direct making the decision and having that protocol, pretty much that's it. But have it on something that you can show outside. For instance, even if it's obvious to us that we have these workshops and everything, just saying as an officially that we made a meeting and said like, oh, we're allocating some money for this workshop, That's already good enough. Even internally nothing changed. But just saying that and having that is like so much better.
**SPEAKER_02:** You have a community music event session. You need to say it. Hey, we're supporting a music community.
**SPEAKER_09:** This money goes to that. That's it. But everything else still stays the same.
**SPEAKER_02:** Yeah, like the goal is to make it healthy and like exploit any kind of situation that we can to get better funds, be healthier and what not.
**SPEAKER_19:** So I think... If you plan, for example, to receive a grant, after the grant you have to approve what you did with the grant.
**UNKNOWN:** Yes.
**SPEAKER_19:** Somewhere, somehow. The grant? The grant. Yeah. So let's say if we ask for a grant, somebody in the organization has to be in charge to certify the grant or to request a grant. So what I understand here we are saying is that These roles are independent for the organizational roles. Anyway, if we receive a grant, we run the grant, we have to justify the grant, and we have this. Someone wants to say, wait, we did it with the money. OK, we have this justification. But two different things I understand from here, to run an activity and be part of the organizational side of the summit.
**SPEAKER_18:** So basically activities that NGOs do, they have a few things that you have to list. Essentially, we are sort of doing this thing nowadays, right? It's just we're doing it sort of in bulk and in a very general manner. So we're just saying like, you know what, we had like, I don't know, Like, you know, this many, like, you know, some random amount. Yeah, so just like an average amount of, let's say, order of magnitude of how many hours we did, like, some activities in TAMI. This is what we're doing currently. I'm not sure it's actually, flawed in a very substantial way. Again, the activity here is very gray in the way that it happens. Of course. Yeah, of course. It's weird, and it's not necessarily as easy to communicate what happens. But I just want to sort of give because I've been in a few meetings like this over the years. I've set up a few of these over the years, and I just wanted to sort of, like, for anyone who is interested in doing stuff, because I think that the biggest thing to keep in mind is Tami is open, right? It always has been open, right? Every person here, you might have not known it, but if you wanted a week ago, a year ago, today, tomorrow, you wanted to be a part of the Amuta, you wanted to take part in documenting stuff, you wanted to take part in helping with all of these things, with recording activities, with doing any of these things, you can do it today, you could have done it yesterday, and you can do it tomorrow. Now, the biggest point here is that because at the end of the day, we're going to walk out of here, right, and every one of us, and I don't know what the conclusion is going to be, But the point is that this is the biggest thing. It's always open and you can always take part in it. It's crucially important because it sort of has to happen and there has never been a limiting factor in doing things better. The only limiting factor is doing it. It's just doing it. And I'm sure that there are many discussions that can be made about good and bad and what should be done and should not be done. But the point is that it just requires doing. And this is the biggest thing. So if you want to take it in any way, you can literally do it. So this is my biggest point.
**SPEAKER_17:** Oh, Wayne.
**SPEAKER_01:** So, practically speaking, there are ways to do things better, but we need to understand what are the plans that maybe you thought about.
**SPEAKER_08:** For the NGO?
**SPEAKER_01:** For everything we're speaking today, like there is a change you want to make.
**SPEAKER_07:** So the first one I mentioned, like Alon wants to move away from being a board member? Yeah. Okay, that's easier now.
**SPEAKER_01:** But that's the easy part.
**SPEAKER_08:** Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
**SPEAKER_09:** It needs to be volunteered and voted in. So the next thing is figuring out with our CPA, which I'm going to probably call tomorrow and ask them, If we wanna do the route to 46, is it possible?
**SPEAKER_01:** What is the requirement?
**SPEAKER_09:** Everything I just mentioned, like having, we're not that good in like having that decision, the decision and protocol, what?
**SPEAKER_24:** Effectively, the 46 thing, it has to go through a committee in the Knesset that I think is 14 years or so.
**SPEAKER_09:** Yeah, but, but, but. We need to look with it. No, but I have notes about it. I'll tell you exactly. I have notes about it. Yeah, yeah. I have it. Let me read it out. Let me read it out. So listen.
**UNKNOWN:** How do they approve that they...
**SPEAKER_09:** No, no, no, listen, so it's like, so it's like, you essentially needs, one sec, I'm trying to find it, okay. So essentially, it's, we need financial reports, which are, went through our audit, internal audit, doesn't have to be external. We needed the new.
**UNKNOWN:** Can you say in each line you read what you are in compliance with and what you are not, if you know?
**SPEAKER_09:** I don't know about any of that. That's a part of why I want to be with the NGO, so I can figure these things out. So we audited financial reports, which essentially we have and we should get the next one. um it's it's through we just apply for it and our cpa our account essentially uh says like yeah and then we apply for it and we get it um i'm talking about like we we already had it so there is no like with the same operation there's no reason that we wouldn't get it to apply it um a functional a functional um
**SPEAKER_26:** Yeah, which we have and we don't need to change.
**SPEAKER_09:** This is the generic thing. And the last one, which is the thing that we need to change practically, is the, I will read it in Hebrew for a sec.
**SPEAKER_26:** Proven activity that complies with the aims of the NGO.
**SPEAKER_09:** Which is essentially, like I said, it's stuff that we've already been doing. We just need a decision and a protocol behind these things from the NGO side. So they would be able to see that this money is actually allocated to the general public, which this is where we're lacking. But it's not uncommon. I should say it's not uncommon for small NGOs as we are to be in that situation. So that's why I'm saying it's an open question if we can or not, and I'll talk to them tomorrow to see. I don't know how to say if we can apply or not. If our CPA will say, yeah, you just start now, and at the end of the year we'll be OK, then we should do that. It's not that difficult, especially if we have more people who want to get involved in making the NGO healthier.
**SPEAKER_02:** One of the best people... Yeah. I think so, I don't really know. But like... The cut-off. The best way to prove that you're doing something is to spend.
**SPEAKER_07:** Actually, like, proving...
**SPEAKER_19:** a person like runs workshop here. Like, I have the workshop, a documented meetup, I have documented emails of people that come to the workshop, that's good, and that's like justified enough for like what we're doing here.
**SPEAKER_02:** I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that money paper trail, stronger than like something that you advertise. That's the only thing. Therefore, spending money is something good. But to spend money, we need to have money.
**SPEAKER_09:** Chapter 46, you have to have at least 30,000 a year revenue.
**SPEAKER_23:** It's not a... And you need one year of papal trail?
**SPEAKER_09:** So before we go into the 46, which is open question, but we want it, for sure. It's just positive, pretty much. I want to just say a word about what it means practically for signing up for the NGO. so you give your full name you give your uh to that zoo id and maybe your phone and email and that exists in our member member book which is can be physical or online but it doesn't expose like you can't uh it's not that easy to uh to see who's member like online you need to pay some money to get the the full report for that and usually it will be only by name but your id is is reducted so it's like it's pretty much if you look online it's just your name And your phone number? Maybe. I don't know if they exposed it. But your ID will still be redacted. So this is what it means practically. And maybe, I don't know if our terms of condition says that or not, but paying the minimum amount a month or whatever for the membership of the junta, which I think for us is zero. I don't think you actually need to pay monthly. Do you know any? Okay. So we don't have it even. we don't we don't no no no not not for if you if you find this if you find that you want to participate in this it'll help to have more people that i can you know we can share them No, not only point out, but share the workload also. If there is something that you can help with, it's easier for me to be like, oh, OK, I can choose you or vote you in for a specific position in order to help with having a better NGO.
**SPEAKER_18:** I just think it's, you know, in Tami, it's quite vague. And it's quite vague, meaning that, I mean, there is just one position right now that we need to fill. And that's, you know, we discussed it. Like, we have a person that wants to step off of a position that we are required to have by law. Like, we need that position. So legally, we have to fill this position in. Beside it. Beside it. It formally, like for the daily contact, it means nothing because it just means in a very like emotional way, perhaps even that, you know, like that person is inclined to be more involved in stuff because it doesn't like. There are many people here that have been doing stuff for the Amutah, like reporting and helping with all these things, and they're not a member, they have no legal connection besides walking in the door. And this stays that way, so my question to the people here is just, I don't know, so do any of you have actual stuff that you want to do? I know that Kfir said stuff that he actually wants to do. And I mean, I'm just like, in my mind, it's just like, fine, do it, right? I mean, basically, if you want help, I mean, it could be just as well in the main channel of Tami. It really is not critical whether or not you choose to be a formal part of the Amutah or not.
**SPEAKER_07:** As long as we take care of decisions and problems,
**SPEAKER_19:** Like what I mentioned before.
**SPEAKER_07:** Just documentation, no? Yeah.
**SPEAKER_19:** Besides the documentation, it would be better the documentation I mentioned to show that we have activities in the NGO, everything is like the same. If we plan to receive money for private money or government money, wherever, if we show that the people who run the projects, especially for a small entity like TAMI, are the same as the people that are in charge of the organization, it looks much better if they are not the same.
**SPEAKER_07:** I mean...
**SPEAKER_19:** I'm not sure, I'm not sure. Yes. For example, if we saw 511, they could look much better, like... As far as I can tell, as far as I can tell, there's always, like, from all the report, NGO reports I've looked at, there were always, like, some people are in, like, being in the general assembly, some people... Yeah, but there's, if that is, they see that people, like, there are people, like, in the, in the board, but no, actually, they're not, actually, in the board, like, they're kind of fake or something like... It's not good.
**SPEAKER_07:** I just wanted to respond.
**SPEAKER_20:** I thought about it a bit more. I'm not sure. Jeremy is a member of the VAD for many... There are two reasons I wanted to get out of being in the VAD.
**SPEAKER_25:** By the way...
**SPEAKER_20:** Yes, so the point... I'm sorry for being late. I'm sorry for not hearing everything that came before what I'm responding to. So maybe you guys talked about this before already, I don't know. I'm just saying, me personally, I had two reasons to get out of it. One was that I wasn't physically that involved with TAMI for a long time, and it felt really weird to be chair of a Namuta, which I visit occasionally, but I'm not really like an active member of. And the second reason was because I'm planning in the summer to go to England for three years or maybe forever. thought it would probably be better for somebody who stays in Israel. But I've been thinking about it since Sunday, or something like that, when Cefil brought it up. No, I mean, you brought up the fact that you want to have a meeting, and you have some vague plan that I didn't really understand. And sort of this came about, this meeting came about, I guess partially as a result of that. And because Jeremy is already a member of the Amutani, lives in Pittsburgh for the last few years, and I don't think anybody gives a damn about that, I'm not sure that's an actual problem for Tommy that I'm not in Israel. So the only thing remaining is my vague unease with being... a non-practicing chairman. So just to sum it up, if there's any good reason to make any changes to Dhammuta, I'm all for it, of course, and I don't have any problem with somebody replacing me, but I no longer require somebody to replace me.
**SPEAKER_07:** The point is...
**SPEAKER_09:** So I would just respond, I just want to respond. Alon, I don't know if you heard what we mentioned this, but this is actually, because we want to, we mentioned this before you came in, because we want to make our Dalmuta healthier, legally and have this decision and protocol which is required for the 46 from the tax authorities. Having the position that you have means that you essentially will have to do more than what you did years before. If you are OK with that, that's great. If you're not, you should know that this is the change that we want to essentially do, is have that external decisions so we can apply for 46 as soon as possible. If it's possible. We don't know yet if it's possible. I'll talk tomorrow with our accountant to see if it's possible. One last thing. Oh, if it's, and I should say, if it's not possible, then tying into what Giddy said, having a backup NGO is not a bad idea in my mind. So we at least can have this and have this properly this time, because we have all the knowledge that we didn't have before. And if you want to sign for that also, that's the same. Everything I said until this point still applies, and you can be, at the TAMI NGO and it can be in the new one, whatever. But like tomorrow we know and I will post and I will say like, okay, he said no or he said yes and this is what we need to do. But having...
**SPEAKER_02:** So the different NGO, it's just like a new one. So like, yeah, start from scratch with no strings attached. So yeah, no, no, no, no. We're the good kid now. Like, sure, you might have bad stuff to say on the management of this NGO, because like any number of reasons, like I've had my clashes with the tax authority many times for... like no apparent like where they were wrong but they clashed with me anyway so you can't ever tell and i have horror stories so starting fresh without any history sure you'll have to do a bunch of stuff but that's negligible relatively than trying to get back from a position where someone is like clashing with you actively from the authorities
**SPEAKER_06:** Moreover, it doesn't really cost us anything. It's like 200 shekels, you said, to apply, and that's about it. And it just sits there in case we'll need it.
**SPEAKER_09:** So it's like you have a home, right? Three, two, one, right? If anybody had ever done backup, it's like three places, two NGOs, whatever.
**SPEAKER_23:** Like I'm not- Yeah. Because I don't think there is any idea Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
**SPEAKER_09:** That's what I said. I don't know, but like that idea came, and I think it's not too bad of idea. And I'm saying this here so people would know that it might exist, and if you want to participate, so you can. The same as everything we said until now.
**SPEAKER_08:** Anybody else want to?
**SPEAKER_19:** The only thing, I don't know, if we start from scratch, we need some history to prove like we can get some benefits. So we start from zero. So it would take maybe a couple of years to be in shape.
**SPEAKER_25:** Okay, I want to thank Kfir for raising the topic, bringing us all together. It's, I think, one of the most active Amutah group we had for a long time. I started my work in Amutah not as a member. I just started helping out with staff. Amutah is... What? With the receipts. With the receipt, just like helping around, and then I got pulled in. I didn't want to be in Damuta. I'm an anarchist. So yeah. Damuta is working from 2014. We are... This is something that kept coming up. We are in good standing. Every year we pay, and this is something that even Amutah, a new Amutah, has to pay. We pay four or 5,000 shekel to our accountant yearly. And he gives us . This is all in the GuideStar. You can see it. It's open now here behind me. So we have every year since our inception. This has not changed. Just regarding this bad management or bad whatever.
**SPEAKER_07:** Okay, regarding 46.
**SPEAKER_25:** We are in the process of 46. We have been there for, I think, almost three years. Some of it is because of me. We had some delay a bit. can blame the we can blame the arabs from the war in getting this new takin you can get new takin for prior years so that put a hit we didn't went with our accountant we went with a different uh there are basically two three accountant firms that handle one of them is this shady not shady sorry that handle our case um They took all our numbers, all our papers, and took the money, and they were working on it. So 46 is happening. I only had a Thursday to ask them what's up. They didn't return yet. 2022. Again, this is something that we should have handled better, but we're not going to pay now. I think it's useless to pay because our account will also take much more money, by the way. Not much, but more money for the same service. So this is regarding our good. It's a bit weird for me to hear this. Guys, you could have asked me about this 46, I would tell you. It sounds like you didn't. This other amutah, first of all, this is important to understand that amutah cannot pass money to another amutah. This got into a very big court case and crushed a woman's . It was a mess. So this thing with as a backup, I don't know. It sounds like I'm talking only about the bad things, but I had some lists, so here we'll figure it out. Automating. Automating is always good, but reality is not easily automated. There are things that are un-automatable, like getting our landlord to use digital receipts. It doesn't really work. He drops it here in the post. Like Noam does stuff with it. Please just take a picture and send. Doesn't always happen. So end of year, also our bank doesn't allow us an API for some reason. Access to the API, we try to scrap it. It's possible. Guys, who's on it? Because then people who put straight to the bank, we can't get... We have to go at the end of the year, C is there, and then I put some receipt and not monthly, and this is important for 46. For 46, you have to act very fast on this. It has to be immediately at the end of the month. So it's more strain on there, but again, of course, 46 is good all around. So automation is not... is not a given because reality is sometimes hard to automate. One thing I heard is doing stuff. I think Eliyus said that doing stuff is easier with money. I think this is core of what Tami is not. I really think we could have gotten an installator. Maybe we won, maybe one Open Monday that was approachable, but I had a blast. I went on YouTube, I like, you know, it was so fun. I really suggest do your own installation. There's not going to be a next one because we're on it, man. This is what we do. We want to, this is the space. We're on it. Maybe, I don't know, like some stuff we couldn't do, like I know I looked at the two guys who did our sewage last year, two 17-year-old guys from there. They were totally on it. I envy them that they know how to lay a sewage pipe, but yeah, I'm not the guy. That's it. I really- Can I just respond one more thing? One second. One second.
**SPEAKER_09:** Yeah. This is good. This is amazing. You said like, you can talk to me and ask me about it. We can't. That's the kind of problem that we were in. We couldn't talk to you about a lot of this stuff because we wouldn't get an answer or you would get aggravated with us. And we all have good intentions at the end of the day. Everybody who decided to be a part of this meeting tonight.
**SPEAKER_18:** I don't feel this way.
**SPEAKER_02:** I speak a lot of stuff. I have a few organizations that want to donate, but they are asking for tax breaks. Yeah. So yeah, that's an issue.
**SPEAKER_25:** It's an issue, but you could ask me.
**SPEAKER_18:** So the point is, I think the point is, right, again, and this is, I think, the core point behind stuff, right? So we can do stuff, right? It's fine. I'm just saying it because, I mean, I sometimes feel that, A, communicating amongst ourselves is not the easiest thing sometimes, okay? It's perfectly fine. Like last year we've had pretty much the same conversation. I like made a meeting about filing again for like the 46th stuff. And we even, I think we had some messages about like getting the money to do it, to file it again. because we were unsure whether or not the filing was good. And this is still an option. So I assume that the point that was given here is that these things are not necessarily unattended to. They are happening. And it's good to acknowledge that. Not in a bad way. I mean, it's just. It's more overhead. I mean, communication is hard. And I mean, it's like... So this is, again, in my mind, again, just what I'm saying, the point is, right? You can do stuff. I mean, there's no objection. And if you want... I mean, for me, it raises a lot of questions, you know, having more money in Tommy, right? Because that leads to how do you make decisions, right? Because right now, if you want to spend some money in Tommy, if you have the money, great. I mean, you can pay for it, which is also... It can be a discussion on whether or not it's good or whatever, right? But that's the way it works. There's no need for a decision-making process. Once the NGO has like a big budget, then there's some decision process that should be made, I guess, right? It's a later problem. It's a later problem, but it's, yeah.
**SPEAKER_07:** It does not negate moving through the process of making changes in that sense, right?
**SPEAKER_09:** We had this conversation. We talked about this a lot, about how having a budget is not a bad idea, just so you'd know. Yeah, just so you have some buffer if you need to, if you want to move away, whatever. We had this conversation. So it's like having a budget.
**SPEAKER_08:** It just has to be made.
**SPEAKER_05:** It just has to be made. It has to be made. Imagine if the lender decides to raise the funds, for example. We can just... It won't be disciplined. Yeah, but getting a credit for my wife, for example, can legit get us...
**SPEAKER_18:** It can also get you in trouble. It can also get you in trouble. You overspend on stuff. You get into commitments that you later cannot afford to... And that's...
**SPEAKER_17:** It has its own problems.
**SPEAKER_05:** I feel like those are the problems you have.
**SPEAKER_18:** I don't know. Tami is successful currently. Just saying. Tami is a big, but it can be good.
**SPEAKER_19:** Sure, fine, then, you know?
**SPEAKER_01:** But from... Tami should be a business. No.
**SPEAKER_19:** Okay, from the point of view of Yair, my question is, which kind of organization we want to be? Like, we want to be an organization like everybody that is, like, come here to do what is good, who is doing that? we want to make an organization like, okay, we will maintain all the places we do by ourselves. I mean, it's an open question. Like, it's an open question. We can have an organization we have. I mean, like, if we, I think, if we concentrate, if we, like, everybody come here and do what is good doing is good, and leave to somebody else, like, If you need a plumber, we need a plumber.
**SPEAKER_15:** We need it.
**SPEAKER_19:** Yeah, money. We cannot solve everything for ourselves.
**SPEAKER_18:** By the way, for the people who want to know how this was solved currently, or the current solution was, basically for the water stuff, right? So what happened was uh we were abroad a lot of us on ccc the situation was kind of bad it was uh manhandling it uh and and i don't know if some other people were as well uh we came back and then we had we had we had uh we had the uh our neighbor was uh due to have his uh like repair person come and look at it but he was not really too motivated to solve the problem because it's not his property he's not renting it yeah he's essentially like you know which i can accept right we thought he was interested in treating that but that's fine water under the bridge he's still no i mean literally water under the floor no but um but anyway so basically Me and Neil just spoke about it. I spoke to the landlord as well. We figured that we might need to get some guys to come here and give us appraisals for fixing it. We basically thought that we would have to pay for it out of our pocket because the landlord doesn't want to pay. He says he doesn't have money to pay for it. Whatever, right? And then they brought here a guy to do an inspection for the pipes, which is a lot cheaper than actually getting the repair people to try to fix it. The repair person said, what we have is like he identified some problem from the shower there. So basically just doing it. We could have had the plumber come here as well. it could have happened, right? We saw that the problem probably was simpler, so we didn't do it at the end, right? It wasn't like sewage pipes or stuff like that. So that's like the way it was solved. And just like, just to, because again, it's just acting, right?
**SPEAKER_25:** So.
**UNKNOWN:** Yeah.
**SPEAKER_25:** The landlord will reimburse us for this 1800 shekels. We paid Israel the leak inspector and the pump. It took us some time because Iran dug too close to the foundation, so it was full of... Yeah, okay. It was full of that. Then we dug yesterday, like, almost a meter down. And I think we pumped everything. Again, it was a lot of fun. Not something I... I just... I was between jobs, man, and I had a drill. That's how it worked. Keep digging, huh? Yeah, like Kala. You know Kala from YouTube? She's like... Okay. Anyway... I... I really want to see more people involved. I didn't ask the... I don't know. Yeah, I have not.
**SPEAKER_02:** Point is, we still need to decide on... I don't need to decide if he wants to remain in his position.
**SPEAKER_12:** This is up to... No, but like, technically...
**SPEAKER_02:** I don't think anyone wants actively to be a Sherman. Yeah.
**SPEAKER_20:** Yeah.
**SPEAKER_12:** Look.
**SPEAKER_20:** I was actually.
**UNKNOWN:** Hello. Hello. Hello.
**SPEAKER_20:** I was feeling like maybe I'm sort of like a firewall for Tami, like in my position, because I don't really care that much about like doing something else with it, and things seem to be sort of cruising along. So maybe it's a good thing.
**SPEAKER_25:** I don't know. I don't like to be in the position because I don't want to be... There is power to the Amuta. The Amutak and especially the three heads have power. I told this alone a long time, like, alone his mode of basically, as a guy who started it in his salon with Jeremy, he was always, he was never telling what to do, you know? This is, and when I was young and I saw him and I was like, what the fuck, man, just, this guy is bad, this thing, like, do, be a leader, and he was always anti, anti that, and, you know, In a way, shut up. In a way, I really liked, I think this is in the DNA of Tami, of not having leadership. I think this is what we do. And I've seen a lot of big places, not only fall and close around us in the last 14, how much, 10, 12 years, where about. Not only fall, but also change. And Tami always in a fucked up way stayed. So I think I would like to see more places not not as Tami, other places that are friends of us around us, this is great, but I want to see Tami just being fucking Tami, like, you know, just like this.
**SPEAKER_19:** Today, what was the protocol to be a board member, to go in as a board member and to leave as a board member?
**SPEAKER_25:** I didn't know anything about Amut Almos until a week ago when this started humming. I just dropped it in GPT, the PDF, and I started asking questions. I urge you to do the same. This meeting is practically illegal because you need to, aside from alone, you can just fuck off whenever you want. Everyone can demount himself. But we are currently the only two members of the Amutah here in this room. It's crazy. Like our guys are not around. So it's good to have. But one of the key things is when you enter the Amutah, you take on to yourself the Matrot Amutah. The goals of the Amutah. And you don't enter the Amutah in order to change the Amutah. This is like a key thing, a key thing, guys. So it's a vehicle, but it has a road on it. Like, you know, you don't just now go to the bank with it. It's not the vibe, I think. But we can get money. We can get grants, guys. We can do whatever. There's nothing... But the funny thing is no one until now wanted to join the Amuta. Because it was such a known thing, it was always, I need my name there. You don't need to pay. You can just write GuideStar slash Tel Aviv Maker slash people. You get these five people. No one wanted it. And I don't want to weaponize the amutah, you know? Make it into a thing that can steal Tami, because Tami is steered by you. There's no CEO.
**SPEAKER_00:** This was also my first fear that came to my mind when we started to have this conversation in some way. We are trying to find a way to make decisions better and this is the main conversation of what we are talking about now. If this is the talk, like then first of all i think uh every manner to its uh to its to its own thing like like we can try to address and solve and even i don't know just a quick thought of my mind do evenings like this around topics and who comes who comes alone who does the thing then who it's like happening because this is the very special thing that I also think it's a great issue in our world today, like how we govern things in a more decentralized way or not centralized way. This is my personal belief, but I think this is a place that which should take advantage as to practice a way for finding this kind of way and like the duocracy thing that it's written in our wiki it's like i never saw this in any way and it's the magical thing that i still can explain in this place that i don't want to lose or change because it's the it feels like it's the natural tendency of of people like the natural pattern that we eventually do here and then it's fucked somehow so this is like my concern
**SPEAKER_26:** Anyone want to join? I don't know. What's the process?
**SPEAKER_25:** What's the process?
**SPEAKER_12:** I don't actually recall, sorry. You're the one who talked to Chachi Kitterism.
**SPEAKER_25:** Yeah, yeah.
**SPEAKER_12:** Basically, we need to open a meeting. It doesn't have to be a yearly... Give me 10 minutes or I don't go read the canon again, because I don't remember what it said.
**SPEAKER_25:** It doesn't need to be yearly. The yearly thing is just to Niulta Kinn, this thing that we're having. Alon, do you agree to the... You didn't read Niulta Kinn? You got it? No.
**SPEAKER_19:** So... So, who will replace Alon?
**SPEAKER_25:** Alon, it seems, doesn't want to be replaced. Okay.
**SPEAKER_12:** Just to clarify, I said I don't want to, but if anybody would propose themselves and people would vote for them, I wouldn't vote against it.
**SPEAKER_25:** No, man, you were like a fucking mascot.
**SPEAKER_01:** Like a very little mascot.
**SPEAKER_12:** In some sense, I feel like I brought everybody here.
**SPEAKER_01:** When you'll be in England, then tell us what you think.
**SPEAKER_20:** That works, actually. That's what we did with Jeremy for the last few years.
**SPEAKER_12:** That works. I think more differently.
**SPEAKER_20:** I mean, Israel didn't say anything about that, like if they wanted to know that Jeremy is in the United States.
**SPEAKER_07:** So I don't think that's going to be a problem.
**SPEAKER_19:** I don't know if you have to be a citizen to be a member of the amuta.
**SPEAKER_15:** I don't know.
**SPEAKER_12:** We need 10 days to give the amuta members for convening.
**SPEAKER_25:** There are like some loopholes. If they don't answer or something, we can have an emergency meeting. I don't think it's called for. I don't think we need an emergency meeting. But I really want to hear from people. Do you think we need to change Tami?
**SPEAKER_19:** I don't think we can change Tami. If we need more members for the board, I can be a member for the board. I don't want any fractal position, Yes, I want to do is start to apply to grants.
**SPEAKER_25:** Yeah, okay.
**SPEAKER_24:** So basically, from my current understanding, there is the issue of the 46. If you want to do that, we presumably need to make some changes to the legal entity of the Almuta. But on the other hand, once we start making changes to the legal entity of the Almuta, we will need to definitely refresh the member list, get people that are more active. and there is a certain fear that, you know, as we make those changes and as the legal entity of Domota, it might have some more impact on the day-to-day of preparations of TAMI and basically we need to have people that we trust that those changes will be positive and won't be abused and it won't like eventually collapse TAMI itself.
**SPEAKER_18:** just just just just for clarification right for so just for just for just for just for just for just for clarification right currently legally speaking there is no need to make any changes to the amuta for as legal requirements to get anything, not the 46. We are complying with the law fully to get 46. Legal wise, yes. Legal-wise, we're fully compliant with it. It's still subject for review. It's a soft issue. The review is by people who might have interests, who might have a certain decision-making process. This is the majority of the discussion. It's not a clear-cut legal thing. Also, formally speaking, It's not, let's say, a purely legal problem. You could argue theoretically that if things are misreported or something like that, it's not good, right? That might be a problem. But this is a very, let's say, on a, it's an ad hoc thing.
**SPEAKER_07:** It means that... There is one big thing that we will just...
**SPEAKER_18:** Is there something you know that we're not legally not ?
**SPEAKER_25:** so basically by getting insurance for for like for for getting formal insurance for protecting the members of the from liability
**SPEAKER_18:** Oh, so, so, okay, so an insurance for the, so, so, so basically, so basically, so basically, so basically, so basically insuring the project itself. You're not necessarily talking about insurance for board members, because they're, because I don't know if that, like. The project itself, but also.
**SPEAKER_07:** Okay. But also.
**SPEAKER_18:** So insurance.
**SPEAKER_07:** You need to formalize the relationship of the.
**SPEAKER_18:** So basically, you know, it's just like, perhaps if the insurance company requires that, you need to, you need to, you need to make adjustments to the, to the, like, to the goals and whatever of the, of the... No, no, it's not the goals, it's not the goals, it's like how the project operates on the way, how the, I mean, you asked, like, it's on the...
**SPEAKER_09:** project operates underneath the . If you need to formalize that in order to be able to point and say, like, OK, this is the project underneath us, and this is how we need to do this in order to receive insurance, for whatever that cost. Sure, whatever. OK. Yeah, that's what I want to do.
**SPEAKER_07:** OK, so getting insurance is cool.
**UNKNOWN:** OK.
**SPEAKER_01:** Okay, so I want to say something that maybe it's above these topics, but for me it's really important about what Tami is for me. I'm not a long time here, but I've known many people and liked or hated different ways of approaching how to do things. The heart of Tami, as I see it, is to allow everyone to be whatever they want and to do how they want things and to solve things. I really like what Yair said about the water. Fine, we can pay a lot of money, everybody can bring their own donation and bring an instalato, but I like that Yair had an experience and people who were here, and I wish I could be, I've been sick, but I will definitely be a part of other things like that. I think that's the heart of TAMI. Even if TAMI will not survive something that will be destroyed or fallen, the fun about doing things and trying to solve them, even if it seems like you wouldn't be able to do that, that's what TAMI is about. And I think that when we are talking about money, Even if it's for a good thing that will improve TAMI as a place, as a community, as accessories and appliances that are here, it's starting to put some kind of rot in that heart. People are starting to feel uncomfortable. in this kind of vibes we can see like some kind of different camps starting to build about how Tami should be which I think it's like a signal of we shouldn't go in that path because I think Tami should be like even as a voting thing like people can The things we're doing now is very important about many other things. If there is a water issue, we can all meet if someone would want to come or not to come, and vote how we think we should solve this issue, but not by paying to someone to do that, but how we should do that, and everybody can suggest things, and it could take days or weeks to find a solution. Maybe we would not find one. But I think that's one of the things, and I think everything you're suggesting about to improve time in many ways that maybe having more money will help, I think that these are things that we can all decide together how to solve them by each one's skills. If someone is an accountant, he can help.
**SPEAKER_07:** There's a huge warning. Do you know about the tyranny of unstructuredlessness?
**SPEAKER_08:** It's like, at the end of the day, we don't really have, you say we,
**SPEAKER_09:** but it's like at the end of the day it's just individuals maybe operating maybe not and it's like if you need to go if you need to hunt for to go through people in order to be a part of something and And it depends on, yeah, or communication is overhead, like Eran said, but like, but if you need to, like, in order to participate, you need to go through these junctions all the time. That's also an issue because it doesn't allow you to operate if you don't know about these things in the first place.
**SPEAKER_01:** Definitely. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that, it might mean that it won't happen now or it's to chase after something that maybe you should move on to other things?
**SPEAKER_19:** I can make an opinion. Like, we are talking about two different models. One, OK, we will solve everything by ourselves. Different philosophies. Yeah, philosophies. And another says, OK, we concentrate on what we are doing. We are good doing. And the answer has not to be binary. The answer has not to be binary.
**SPEAKER_15:** OK? Yeah, yeah.
**SPEAKER_19:** For example, if we have a problem with a pumbling, and someone here had to solve the problem, or had the skill to solve the problem, we can give to this person or this approach a preference.
**SPEAKER_06:** Yes.
**SPEAKER_19:** A preference. But if it not solve the problem, or we don't have the skills, we have to move on. and make a different approach. But maybe, maybe we can also investigate and find a solution. Yes, but I mean, we can give some preference of one kind of philosophy or approach, but my suggestion is not to be binary. I mean, not only this way or only this way.
**SPEAKER_01:** Yeah, I mean, that's fine, I agree.
**SPEAKER_22:** and yeah okay i feel like a lot of people speak about changing time or something like this part of the people say and other people say it's not not that much changing what i see that is will not be any changes it just look logistic part nothing like part of the people say hey we need the paragraph 46 to get more money and operate easily it's not give those people any power it's not change anything in time like every stand same the only thing they say okay we need some people will operate this However, everyone wanted to do it and there is done. If there is any changes by power or something like this, you just get, I don't know, just some people, if you believe we need to operate in other way, the logistic part, the background, so go and change it. It's not change the mainstream of Tami operation. If I want to get some receives for better operation, I will go and ask for receives and do it by myself. I will go to everyone who makes something in Tami and I will ask for them. So if I believe in this, I can do it. I just change the logic of operation if I believe in it. If not, that's not. No, it's not. Where you see everyone, it's the same how it was. I just believe I want it higher and more money. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So this basically what higher here that people say here. So I don't get to what the conversation keeping on or what, about what, because nothing will change.
**SPEAKER_18:** It's the conversation of things that were not done. You have to hypothesize on how they will look. You don't know.
**SPEAKER_22:** You just need someone who did it. If you wanted to do something, find someone who will do it. That's all. I don't get that much about your point now. Where are you going to? I don't get the point. Where are you going to?
**SPEAKER_03:** Yeah?
**SPEAKER_22:** So if you want to operate in your way, operate in your way. You will believe you want more money.
**SPEAKER_18:** I think some proposals that were made, if we can recap right, was one was I think some people want to become members of the Amutah. I heard some people like a week ago, I think that but that's one thing. So I mean, if anyone that didn't think of it can think of it now. I think that as well, I think maybe more people want to look into the 46 stuff to see if they can help out, which is cool. I think we had the proposal of looking into stuff like insurance and whatever that requires. Cool. Insurance for what? For insurance for basically protecting the amutah from the legal entity that is sort of responsible for this place. So, it's important to say, right? It's important to say, we, so basically if you are a member of the Amutah, it's a concern of you. I don't, by the way, I think that anyone that is interested in, I don't know, it's kind of a weird thing because I mean, it's really the responsibility of the board of directors. And if you're not in the board of directors, it's a weird thing for you to worry about. Now, I think if you want to be a part of the board of directors and you say, this is something I want because I want to be a part of the board of directors, then I think it's cool. I mean, it's kind of weird otherwise, I think.
**SPEAKER_07:** Why do you think financial liability for anything as a board of directors right now without any insurance?
**SPEAKER_18:** Because of the law. the Israel the they do yeah they do yeah even if you're yeah if you are even if you are an LLC even so let's say basically basically people want to deal with that so that's the point people want to do stuff love about it I think it's cool it's not it's not I mean like how you I like you want you say let people do what they want and then you're like telling me it's weird like
**SPEAKER_16:** It's a personal opinion. Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Hey, hey, hey, look, look.
**SPEAKER_18:** I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I just like to say, I just thought in the beginning, the Tommy is open stuff was weird. It's really cool, but I mean, it's not, it's, it's, it's, yeah. I'm sorry. Sorry, my opinion is discouraging, but that's, that's,
**UNKNOWN:** Another thing, for me a silent Dhammuta is a sweet Dhammuta for time.
**SPEAKER_25:** But we do need more faces in Dhammuta, like people that just to come to this stuff. Again, historically it was just a matter of signing once a year on the scene. I don't remember any time that I voted in my long years. I don't remember that happening. I don't want it to happen, but it's not my...
**SPEAKER_03:** Does anyone want? To have actual voting for some issues. What kind of voting can one imagine here? Like, whether to call professional plumber or not, should it be voted? Like, if money from the fund goes to professional plumber or not, is it kind of voting you discussed?
**SPEAKER_21:** Everyone want a battle for Tommy, so if you can get it, do it. You don't need that much.
**SPEAKER_03:** No, voting would be needed for money from Tommy's fund.
**SPEAKER_25:** Maybe I don't see any reason for voting. Of course, there could be, if enough members who share ideology can basically take over them. That's something that can happen. If I want to change , I can enter , and then I can So this is why I like the silent because then we don't have this politics. This is politics. This is one-on-one politics. This is why you have three people in the boat so they can fight each other. Three people is the minimum. No, two people is to fight. Three people is to, you know, make sense into each other. To take sides. To take sides, yeah, exactly.
**SPEAKER_00:** With two people, you don't have sides. Like, we should practice how to make it good with 80 people without one deciding, no? Yeah, so the more the merrier.
**SPEAKER_25:** The more the merrier. On one end, yeah. But for me, it always was a silent thing. But these people drift away, yeah. These guys who are part of the Amutah. You know, I go over the funds and some of the people I don't even know. Like the big money from Amutah, I don't remember them. They're like, just want to see Tami happen. So the money was never connected to what Tami is or the people who are actually in Tami. And the Amutah was never connected to the guiding. I love this. This is what I want.
**SPEAKER_03:** Does anyone want it to be changed? It seems like having funds is a bad thing.
**SPEAKER_02:** But I don't understand why, though. I get that numbers on the screen get people angry and fight each other.
**SPEAKER_24:** Why is it necessary to have more money, I guess?
**SPEAKER_02:** Because the next time that you want to have a fix or you want I don't know, to make sure that we do not get toxins in our blood because of the air here or whatever happens here.
**SPEAKER_24:** That's like fear of the unknown future.
**SPEAKER_02:** Yeah, that's why you have in your personal life backups and you have stuff that you still wait for a rainy day. This is helping living.
**SPEAKER_18:** But a namuta has to spend the money every year.
**SPEAKER_02:** That's awesome, but it has to have money to spend.
**SPEAKER_08:** Yeah, but you need to spend unless it's allocated. Unless you have a decision that you set. You want this as a buffer.
**SPEAKER_02:** Funds is good. It's like we live in a world. No, people who are deciding the funds are all day long. This is the... No, no. Great. Like, I don't want to decide on money. I just want it to be. But in order to be, you need to have funds. And it's not a bad word to say that you need funds.
**SPEAKER_25:** It's not. But you know, it's funny. Like, people sometimes come to Tommy and say, this place can't happen. And they stand in Tommy and say, this place can't happen. And it fucking happens. Like, you know, 40 years, man. No, it hurts. It happens, like in doom and gloom and all this, like, it's, I don't know. Tell me how it happens. Happens.
**SPEAKER_03:** Yeah, sure. I don't want to test that. Like, why do we need to test it? The help, by the moves, the relocations from one place to another. It has already been tested. Yeah. And it continues to function the way it is.
**SPEAKER_23:** I'm not sure where is the contradiction on the two sides of the... You can have a silent NGO, and this silent NGO would be functioning well enough to get chapter 46. It is functioning. It is in the way for chapter 46.
**SPEAKER_25:** I love it as much. What we're doing is once we had this long discussion, and I was very angry about it. And then Alon sent me the hummingbird seat. You know the hummingbird seat? There's an RFC for humming. And humming is something that happens in digital culture. And it's about just talking. Not voting and not like forcing a side or that. It's just like fucking humming. So yeah, it can be annoying. This talk can be annoying and I really want to smoke. But it's just good to talk. I'm happy this is happening. I'm happy we're like...
**SPEAKER_05:** Talking is good, but if you're talking to any actual politician or government entity, the firm, as I'm concerned, you're disqualified from having anything remotely to do with government. Keep that in mind. That's your opinion. Yeah. I'm not saying we should do anything in Bingo. No.
**SPEAKER_15:** Can I share something with you?
**SPEAKER_11:** Hi, my name is Jesse. I come from other stock sites. something like culture and art. I had a conversation this week with a friend of mine around the gallery and they had a really big gallery for all their galleries in Calabria because they're going into a new system now in Calabria which has to do with the Almona and has to do with budgeting and you get a point by how efficient, how you stand behind it. So I'm just here to put out this and this is always happening, that the city is really changing in a different way. There was also a big networking conference a week ago with the municipality and other groups of media. And the municipality came and called, this is our vision for different sadots of their action. And there were a lot of pitching, but also trying to invite this kind of, and I feel that it's very interesting to look at this moment because after the integration of the underground wisdom and municipality which there is more like knowing in the municipality know about everything now and there is a clear mapping that's always being updated every year in the next book I can't remember where it's actually so it's like giving the keys to the kingdom I'm making a mishmash in what I'm trying to say here, because I don't want to use a lot of time. But it's easier to see the end of the world than starting to imagine the death of capitalism and what you would like it to be instead. So getting ready for this change that is coming, and it's coming for everyone, is a good thing, could be. It's not like a Doomsday kind of an issue. But there is changes, and the city is changing.
**SPEAKER_19:** I mean, when you have some money for grants, you always have to tell the story, and the story has to comply with the people who give the money. It means it's always this way. The point is, if we want to apply to grants, if we are in shape to apply to grants, or we want any modification. I hear from Yair, maybe you have. For insurance?
**UNKNOWN:** Okay.
**SPEAKER_11:** I know that you like your ha-ha-ing, but things are changing. Things are changing. And it's a fool to take that into consideration. It's not the only option. It's something like to widen a perspective on a reality that could and should and will change. So this isn't meant like I'm
**SPEAKER_25:** I just, on Jackie, Jackie, Jackie knows what she's talking about. She's like, she's doing underground.
**SPEAKER_11:** I have a festival, which runs, it's an independent festival, and I work with the municipality for like, with underground venues, with the municipality for like five years, and with the venues like 15 years, and I'm just like, I have a sense for these things, usually, and it's just, and I, tend to throw into the well of opinions and ideas and thoughts.
**SPEAKER_24:** Do we actually want to even engage with the municipality?
**SPEAKER_11:** We'll engage with you. That's what I'm trying to say to you. You don't have to. It's not about the grants. It's not about the money. It's about seeing the .. OK.
**SPEAKER_24:** Do you want to hide from them, or do you want to present themselves?
**SPEAKER_18:** So essentially, if I may try to reiterate, is that the municipality is actively looking for projects that are similar in characteristics to TAMI. And essentially, the municipality is inclined to look into these activities and is inclined to engage with these activities and this engagement might be painful it might be let's say take you in directions that you might necessarily not want Yeah, interfere with what it is that you want to achieve. So I think this might allude more to Gilly's point from the beginning that there are certain things that could be done better. Now, this is something which is like that I think is the point. Is that pretty much like the what?
**SPEAKER_19:** I have similar experience in Madrid. But we were running a project supported with the Ministry of Culture. We received a platform of the Ministry of Culture. We somehow were aligned with the Ministry of Culture. There was a change of government. We suffered a lot of change of government. And I mean, you have to link to tell the story that they want to hear. It's a little bit in this direction.
**SPEAKER_11:** The quantity of NGOs that were closed during the new coalition of 2010-11 was hideous. It was one of the hardest hits to the left underground independent media. So things can happen. I am part of the archive and we're thinking about what can happen and also the National Library is asking and other groups are asking what happens if they take away data or they seize data. Like there is a lot of these questions right now and we're worried. We're worried.
**SPEAKER_25:** No, don't worry. We're too real.
**SPEAKER_22:** Thank you.
**SPEAKER_07:** Thank you.